Discussion:
Poll: should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"?
(too old to reply)
Alan Somers
2017-12-12 18:03:54 UTC
Permalink
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame at the
Phabricator link below.

https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7

-Alan
Steve Kargl
2017-12-12 18:15:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Somers
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame at the
Phabricator link below.
https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7
Does not work.

Unhandled Exception ("AphrontMalformedRequestException")
Your browser did not submit a "phcid" cookie with client state
information in the request. Check that cookies are enabled.
If this problem persists, you may need to clear your cookies.

Of course, I don't have an account on https://reviews.freebsd.org/
--
Steve
Alan Somers
2017-12-12 18:19:21 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Steve Kargl <
Post by Steve Kargl
Post by Alan Somers
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame at the
Phabricator link below.
https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7
Does not work.
Unhandled Exception ("AphrontMalformedRequestException")
Your browser did not submit a "phcid" cookie with client state
information in the request. Check that cookies are enabled.
If this problem persists, you may need to clear your cookies.
Of course, I don't have an account on https://reviews.freebsd.org/
--
Steve
You can direct questions like this to phabric-***@FreeBSD.org .
Steve Kargl
2017-12-12 18:27:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Somers
On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Steve Kargl <
Post by Steve Kargl
Post by Alan Somers
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame at the
Phabricator link below.
https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7
Does not work.
Unhandled Exception ("AphrontMalformedRequestException")
Your browser did not submit a "phcid" cookie with client state
information in the request. Check that cookies are enabled.
If this problem persists, you may need to clear your cookies.
Of course, I don't have an account on https://reviews.freebsd.org/
There isn't a question. I'm pointing out your poll apparently
is limited to a select few individuals that use FreeBSD.
--
Steve
Alan Somers
2017-12-12 18:41:25 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 11:27 AM, Steve Kargl <
Post by Alan Somers
Post by Alan Somers
On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Steve Kargl <
Post by Steve Kargl
Post by Alan Somers
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame
at the
Post by Alan Somers
Post by Steve Kargl
Post by Alan Somers
Phabricator link below.
https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7
Does not work.
Unhandled Exception ("AphrontMalformedRequestException")
Your browser did not submit a "phcid" cookie with client state
information in the request. Check that cookies are enabled.
If this problem persists, you may need to clear your cookies.
Of course, I don't have an account on https://reviews.freebsd.org/
There isn't a question. I'm pointing out your poll apparently
is limited to a select few individuals that use FreeBSD.
--
Steve
Accounts are not limited to FreeBSD committers. Any member of the
community may create one. Just fill out the form here. I'm not sure
whether new account requests are moderated or not.
https://reviews.freebsd.org/auth/

-Alan
Conrad Meyer
2017-12-12 18:41:49 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve Kargl
Post by Steve Kargl
There isn't a question. I'm pointing out your poll apparently
is limited to a select few individuals that use FreeBSD.
The select few individuals being "literally anyone that wants to
participate?" https://reviews.freebsd.org/auth/register/
Steve Kargl
2017-12-12 19:01:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Conrad Meyer
On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve Kargl
Post by Steve Kargl
There isn't a question. I'm pointing out your poll apparently
is limited to a select few individuals that use FreeBSD.
The select few individuals being "literally anyone that wants to
participate?" https://reviews.freebsd.org/auth/register/
Ah, yeah, I know.

I have ***@freebsd.org and a FreeBSD bugzilla account.
Adding yet another FreeBSD account to my collection of
30 or so other accounts seems to be overkill to simply
prevent the silliness of change man(1). In particular,
'man man' shows

MANPAGER Program used to display files.

If unset, and color support is enabled, “less -sR” is
used.

If unset, and color support is disabled, then PAGER is
used. If that has no value either, “more -s” is used.

If someone wants to use 'less -s', then someone only needs to
set PAGER correctly.
--
Steve
Cy Schubert
2017-12-12 19:06:33 UTC
Permalink
What about those of us who want multiple accounts?

Just kidding but you get my point.

What's to stop someone from having more than one vote?

---
Sent using a tiny phone keyboard.
Apologies for any typos and autocorrect.
Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies.

Cy Schubert
<***@cschubert.com> or <***@freebsd.org>
The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.
---

-----Original Message-----
From: Conrad Meyer
Sent: 12/12/2017 10:42
To: ***@troutmask.apl.washington.edu
Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT
Subject: Re: Poll: should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"?

On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve Kargl
Post by Steve Kargl
There isn't a question. I'm pointing out your poll apparently
is limited to a select few individuals that use FreeBSD.
The select few individuals being "literally anyone that wants to
participate?" https://reviews.freebsd.org/auth/register/
_______________________________________________
freebsd-***@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-current-***@freebsd.org"
Alan Somers
2017-12-12 19:16:36 UTC
Permalink
The vote isn't secret; if you vote as both ***@freebsd.org and ***@github.com
it'll be obvious.
Post by Cy Schubert
What about those of us who want multiple accounts?
Just kidding but you get my point.
What's to stop someone from having more than one vote?
---
Sent using a tiny phone keyboard.
Apologies for any typos and autocorrect.
Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies.
Cy Schubert
The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.
---
-----Original Message-----
From: Conrad Meyer
Sent: 12/12/2017 10:42
Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT
Subject: Re: Poll: should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"?
On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve Kargl
Post by Steve Kargl
There isn't a question. I'm pointing out your poll apparently
is limited to a select few individuals that use FreeBSD.
The select few individuals being "literally anyone that wants to
participate?" https://reviews.freebsd.org/auth/register/
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current
Conrad Meyer
2017-12-12 19:15:35 UTC
Permalink
Ordinary human decency.
Post by Cy Schubert
What about those of us who want multiple accounts?
Just kidding but you get my point.
What's to stop someone from having more than one vote?
---
Sent using a tiny phone keyboard.
Apologies for any typos and autocorrect.
Also, this old phone only supports top post. Apologies.
Cy Schubert
The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.
---
________________________________
From: Conrad Meyer
Sent: 12/12/2017 10:42
Cc: FreeBSD CURRENT
Subject: Re: Poll: should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"?
On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Steve Kargl
Post by Steve Kargl
There isn't a question. I'm pointing out your poll apparently
is limited to a select few individuals that use FreeBSD.
The select few individuals being "literally anyone that wants to
participate?" https://reviews.freebsd.org/auth/register/
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current
Chris H
2017-12-12 20:02:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Kargl
Post by Alan Somers
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame at the
Phabricator link below.
https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7
Does not work.
Unhandled Exception ("AphrontMalformedRequestException")
Your browser did not submit a "phcid" cookie with client state
information in the request. Check that cookies are enabled.
If this problem persists, you may need to clear your cookies.
Of course, I don't have an account on https://reviews.freebsd.org/
Hah! I got the same (alarming) feedback too. I then tried to just log in,
and it worked. Guess you'll need, or create an account? :-)

--Chris
Post by Steve Kargl
--
Steve
_______________________________________________
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current
Kevin Oberman
2017-12-12 20:27:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris H
Post by Steve Kargl
Post by Alan Somers
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame at
the
Post by Alan Somers
Phabricator link below.
Post by Alan Somers
https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7
Does not work.
Unhandled Exception ("AphrontMalformedRequestException")
Your browser did not submit a "phcid" cookie with client state
information in the request. Check that cookies are enabled.
If this problem persists, you may need to clear your cookies.
Of course, I don't have an account on https://reviews.freebsd.org/
Hah! I got the same (alarming) feedback too. I then tried to just log in,
and it worked. Guess you'll need, or create an account? :-)
--Chris
Post by Steve Kargl
--
Steve
I have not used those ancient, very limited pagers for years, but I am sure
that almost nobody has even heard of the much more powerful sysutils/most.

While newer than more or less, it is hardly new in most senses as I first
used it on VMS systems at least a quarter century ago, probably longer.
--
Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer
E-mail: ***@gmail.com
PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1B055683
Chris H
2017-12-12 20:39:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kevin Oberman
Post by Chris H
Post by Steve Kargl
Post by Alan Somers
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame at
the
Post by Alan Somers
Phabricator link below.
Post by Alan Somers
https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7
Does not work.
Unhandled Exception ("AphrontMalformedRequestException")
Your browser did not submit a "phcid" cookie with client state
information in the request. Check that cookies are enabled.
If this problem persists, you may need to clear your cookies.
Of course, I don't have an account on https://reviews.freebsd.org/
Hah! I got the same (alarming) feedback too. I then tried to just log in,
and it worked. Guess you'll need, or create an account? :-)
--Chris
Post by Steve Kargl
--
Steve
I have not used those ancient, very limited pagers for years, but I am sure
that almost nobody has even heard of the much more powerful sysutils/most.
Ooo... I may have voted too soon. :-O
Thanks for the pointer, Kevin!

--Chris
Post by Kevin Oberman
While newer than more or less, it is hardly new in most senses as I first
used it on VMS systems at least a quarter century ago, probably longer.
--
Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer
PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1B055683
Alan Somers
2017-12-12 20:40:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris H
Post by Kevin Oberman
said
Post by Chris H
Post by Steve Kargl
Post by Alan Somers
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame at
the
Post by Alan Somers
Phabricator link below.
Post by Alan Somers
https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7
Does not work.
Unhandled Exception ("AphrontMalformedRequestException")
Your browser did not submit a "phcid" cookie with client state
information in the request. Check that cookies are enabled.
If this problem persists, you may need to clear your cookies.
Of course, I don't have an account on https://reviews.freebsd.org/
Hah! I got the same (alarming) feedback too. I then tried to just log
in,
Post by Chris H
and it worked. Guess you'll need, or create an account? :-)
--Chris
Post by Steve Kargl
--
Steve
I have not used those ancient, very limited pagers for years, but I am sure
that almost nobody has even heard of the much more powerful sysutils/most.
Ooo... I may have voted too soon. :-O
Thanks for the pointer, Kevin!
--Chris
most looks pretty cool. The only probably I noticed in my brief inspection
was that it doesn't support the Home and End keys.
Kevin Oberman
2017-12-12 23:46:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Somers
Post by Chris H
Post by Kevin Oberman
said
Post by Chris H
Post by Steve Kargl
Post by Alan Somers
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame
at
Post by Chris H
Post by Steve Kargl
the
Post by Alan Somers
Phabricator link below.
Post by Alan Somers
https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7
Does not work.
Unhandled Exception ("AphrontMalformedRequestException")
Your browser did not submit a "phcid" cookie with client state
information in the request. Check that cookies are enabled.
If this problem persists, you may need to clear your cookies.
Of course, I don't have an account on https://reviews.freebsd.org/
Hah! I got the same (alarming) feedback too. I then tried to just log
in,
Post by Chris H
and it worked. Guess you'll need, or create an account? :-)
--Chris
Post by Steve Kargl
--
Steve
I have not used those ancient, very limited pagers for years, but I am sure
that almost nobody has even heard of the much more powerful
sysutils/most.
Ooo... I may have voted too soon. :-O
Thanks for the pointer, Kevin!
--Chris
most looks pretty cool. The only probably I noticed in my brief
inspection was that it doesn't support the Home and End keys.
Having started with most(1) in days before we had <HOME> and <END>
(VT220s), my fingers are trained for t (top) and b (bottom). Adding support
for those keys should be pretty trivial. I'll drop the author a note asking
if they might be added for 5.1.
--
Kevin Oberman, Part time kid herder and retired Network Engineer
E-mail: ***@gmail.com
PGP Fingerprint: D03FB98AFA78E3B78C1694B318AB39EF1B055683
Jamie Landeg-Jones
2017-12-14 16:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Somers
Should man(1)'s default pager change to "less -s"? Vote and flame at the
Phabricator link below.
https://reviews.freebsd.org/V7
It's probably too late to suggest a "don't mind either way" option, to at
least give a better idea on who bothers to vote.

But anyway, despite seeming to be "flying the flag" for "more", I actually
don't mind either way.

It's not because the changes won't affect me. I humbly like to think my
responses to such questions are for the overall good.

In this case, "less" is similar enough to "more" (and arguably better) that
it's not a bad change to make.

Old farts like me who prefer the old "more" can continue to set it - those who
don't care, or don't know, will not be negatively effected.

I know I'm just some random guy on the internet, but I thought I'd throw in my
2 cents as there may be others with a similar philosophy on these types of changes.

Cheers, Jamie

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